Perhaps, after thousands of years of interacting with His creation and calling man to repentance, God has realized that He made a mistake. Having finally come to understand that sin really isn't all that bad, God is doing a "new" work. Therefore many doctrines and outreach efforts now focus on a gospel of accommodating the sinner while IN his sin...and they call this "love". The Scriptures have one word for it: apostasy.
Apostasy: A falling away, a defection or divorce; a total desertion of or departure from revealed truth.
Here are just some of the ear-tickling statements so popular from this false church movement:
- All your sins, past, present, and future were forgiven when you were saved.
- God no longer sees your sin, He sees the imputed righteousness of Christ.
- There is too much work to be done in soul-winning for us to worry about sin.
- Preaching on the wrongs of sin only pushes people away and makes the church look judgmental.
- Jesus will never judge you, so don’t listen to the enemy and feel condemned.
- Nobody is perfect; it is impossible for us to cease from sin while in these earthly bodies.
- Repentance is works-based salvation.
- God knows your heart. As long as you believe in Jesus your sin doesn't matter.
- Holiness is legalism.
- We have freedom in Christ, so we are saved in spite of our disobedience.
- You are justified, but just not sanctified yet.
- Nothing you do can ever separate you from Christ.
- You are eternally secured because Jesus paid it all.
- Jesus is already your Savior, you just need to make Him your Lord.
- God accepts you just as you are.
- It’s not your fault, we were all sinners saved by grace, which covers us while we are in sin.
- If you could stop sinning, you wouldn't need Jesus.
God's answer for sin is repentance leading us to the cross (Romans 6:6-7). The modern church's answer for sin is to keep convincing people how much God "loves" them. The issue of sin is not about God's love of man, but man's love of darkness.
"And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil." John 3:19
This is the condemnation. Do we hear that? The core problem is that man loves evil. That is why man cannot just decide to come to Christ. Many are wasting time and effort leading others to a false conversion by trying to show them how they have broken God's laws and are in need of a savior.
We cannot draw people to Christ by showing them the law, convincing them that they have sinned, and getting them to make a decision to express faith in Christ so as to escape the penalty of Hell. That is not salvation...that is fire insurance.
The only way man can come to salvation is that the Holy Spirit pricks the heart, bringing about a sorrow within man over his condition which leads to repentance. Man needs a change of heart by being born again and that can only be wrought by God...not by a hug.
Those who are telling you that there is too much emphasis on sin in the church or that such is a deterrent to the Gospel are merely preaching smooth things in order to justify their own sinful ways. Seeking to water-down the Gospel so that it does not offend sinners is just one more way that the churchworld seeks to blend with, and gain the acceptance of, the world. The Gospel message has not changed: Repent, for the Kingdom of God is at hand.
God showed the ultimate in love for man because of sin when He sent Jesus Christ to die on the cross. There is no "love" we can show greater than that. When we are truly born again, we begin to feel about sin the way that God does because His very life is present within us. If we feel offended by the mention of sin or can continue in sin unabated after confessing faith in Christ, such is not the evidence that we need more love...it shows that we are yet unconverted.
I'm pretty sure the fact that nobody is perfect is a church doctrine
ReplyDeleteRomans 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
What I have a problem with are people who claim we shouldn't strive for perfection.
I would offer that there is a difference between "being perfect" and "being perfected".
ReplyDeleteWe are commanded to strive for perfection, as you say.
"But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing." James 1:4
"Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you." Philippians 3:15
"Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." Matthew 5:48
There is no excuse for man continuing in sin, for God has already provided a remedy for sin. God does not excuse it and neither should those who are in Christ.
"Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin." Romans 6:4-7
May we each reckon ourselves dead with Christ and make no provision for the flesh.
Also, I recently listened to a minister preach on 2 John and 3 John. He pointed out that both have the same topic: hospitality, but that one is addressed to a woman and the other a man.
ReplyDeleteHe goes on to say that there are certain inclinations in women and men. Women tend to lean to "love" to the detriment of truth and men tend to lean to "truth" to the detriment of love. We need God's Spirit to help us find the right balance between the two.
However, with the church becoming more and more matriarchal, we see truth being thrown out the window in favor of love. So I definitely see a connection between the two.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsKFKj_8g_E
You said,
ReplyDelete"Many are wasting time and effort leading others to a false conversion by trying to show them how they have broken God's laws and are in need of a savior... We cannot draw people to Christ by showing them the law, convincing them that they have sinned, and getting them to make a decision to express faith in Christ so as to escape the penalty of Hell. That is not salvation...that is fire insurance."
The "Way of the Master" (WM) series is a perfect example of this. And both of those guys often add "Eternal Security" into the mix further screwing up any real convert.
I agree and understand that the Holy Spirit draws men to Christ and not the law. My issue is: I want to make sure I'm not telling the gospel wrongly by bringing in the law. Often times, people think that their sin isn't a big deal until the light of the biblical commandments of God are shed on it, then it becomes a big deal (as they see themselves as a real sinner), and it is at this point that they have to accept or reject salvation in Christ.
When Jesus preached: "Repent for the kingdom is at hand", every jew knew they were a sinner because of the sacrfices they had to perform each time they messed up. Everyone else today, on the other hand, knows they're wrong, but it's not a big deal until the commandments of God are spoken which illuminate what's already written on their hearts. Pastor Price often says, "We need to preach them damned, before we can preach salvation to them." The law shows people that they're damned and need a savior.
While I don't agree with the entire ministry of WM, I agree with the commandments being stated. I think when Jesus preached, "Repent for the kingdom is at hand", perhaps he said, "Repent of this and repent of that." Isn't part of the gospel telling people that they don't measure up to God's requirements and need to be born again, and given the power of Jesus to abstain from sin and to ultimately be saved; so therefore: repent and follow God?
I know that the Holy Spirit does the convicting and heart pricking, but shouldn't we mention the requirements of God which is the law? I also know that if someone wants to continue to pretend as if they are not a sinner - to leave them alone. But if it is a waste of time to show people how they've broken the law, then what should we be preaching?
Hi Neal,
ReplyDeleteScripture does say that the law is a schoolmaster leading us to Christ. I don't mean to imply that God's commands should never be referenced in preaching the Gospel. I am sure God uses them to play a major role in conviction before repentance.
What I am addressing here is more of an intellectual acknowledgment than conversion. It is like preaching for some has become mechanical: Ask they person if they consider themselves to be "good", Point to the law, and Tell them they need Jesus.
I sure think the law can be good when used lawfully (I Timothy 1:8). But anytime we think there is a 1,2,3 process for salvation, we may be missing the big picture. How many people have acknowledged they were sinners, realized they needed a Savior, but never really had a heart change because they are not ready to part with sin?
In all, I believe we have to be led of God about how to minister to the lost and what to say. A number of people promote this WM approach as "the way" to bring folks to Christ and I just don't know how effective that is.
What has been your experience with using the law in witnessing?
There is often confusion regarding our state prior to faith in Messiah amd our state afterwards.
ReplyDeleteFor all have sinned and none righteous are true for the unsaved but theses statements should not be used as excuses for continued sin after coming to Jesus.
Jesus did not die so that we could continue in sin and unrighteousness.
He came to save us FROM our sins - not merely from the penalty of our sins.
Help me out...
ReplyDeleteJohn testified..."Behold, the Lamb of God, WHO TAKES AWAY the sins of the world!"
But you noted, "All your sins, past, present, and future were forgiven when you were saved." is an ear-tickling statement. Could you open that up a little more?
You also said, "We cannot draw people to Christ by showing them the law..." then according to what backdrop did Christ, Paul, and the author of Hebrews make concerning Christ to the Jews? Yes, the Holy Spirit is the "heart-pricking" agent, but the way it is done is as diverse as the souls in need for Christ.
You said, "The Gospel message has not changed: Repent, for the Kingdom of God is at hand." This phrase was given to Jews, not Gentiles. Gentiles didn't receive a "coming kingdom" message. The Jews were and are still awaiting a "reigning" kingdom. For example, the woman at the well struggled with true worship, Nicodemus struggled with the sinful nature, the Ethiopian in Acts struggled with Old Testament prophecy, the rich young ruler struggled with dependence. Paul saw clearly His need for Christ by his inability to keep the law (Rom. 7). My point is that the gospel of the kingdom is a Person and that person meets you were you are. As a Gentile, I'm clueless about sacrificial lamb's, but I know what it is to need bread (the Syro-Phonecian woman).
I'm not disagreeing with the heart of what you are saying, but there are certain things in this letter that are under attack that are actually in our Gospel message.
Like when you said, "it is impossible for us to cease from sin while in these earthly bodies" as a ear-tickiling statement. Then why did John point his readers to an Advocate in 1 John 2:1 or "a way of escape" through Paul (1 Cor. 10:13? And why did Paul reveal the sinful agent imparted in our flesh that no longer reigns, but is very active; warring against the Spirit (Rom 8)?
We are not to "commit" ourselves to sin, but as long as we are in this "body of death," we are going to slip, hence why the blood must cover my past, present, and future sins...granting me constant access to the Father, so that He might bring unto perfection by faith in Christ through grace.
The core problem of man is not that he loves darkness, but that he rejects the light. Man's judgment is not that he is sick, but that he rejects the remedy (John 3:18).
Sin is done away with through the righteous requirement of God through Christ, but I cease from sinning because I love Him, not through an "or else" kingdom message. His life/love has taken me over.
The good news is not love away my sin, but it is that He loved me away from sin.
It just seems that "some" of your punches are random.
The help I ask for is about the post, not the gospel.
Hello Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteI will attempt to help you out as best I can, but I would commend you further study of the Scriptures in these areas. To give you food for thought about your specific questions:
1) Jesus taking away the sins of the world speaks of His atonement for sin. It doesn't mean that there is no more sin in the world. Nor does is mean that one's sins are automatically forgiven without turning in faith to Him. Further, it doesn't mean that a person who does turn to Him in faith has received forgiveness of future sin.
When we are received by Christ, we are forgiven of past sin, cleansed, and given the means by which we can overcome sin by the power of the Holy Spirit (Romans 6:6-7). The command at that point is to go and sin no more (I John 2:1).
As you point out yourself, God tells us that if "we" (believers) sin, we have an advocate in Jesus Christ (I John 2:1). God would not need to commend us to an advocate (Christ) for sin after salvation if all of our future sins were already forgiven. Lastly, Scripture states that this is not so (II Peter 1:9).
2) In terms of how to witness to the lost, I recommend that you look back at the examples in Scripture. Read in particular Acts Chapter 2. When hearing how Christ had been crucified for them, they were pricked in their hearts, and asked what they should do. The answer is "Repent"(verses 36-38).
As you say, "the way it is done is as diverse as the souls in need for Christ." That is the point exactly. It is as the Spirit draws/leads and there is no prescriptive formula other than that.
3) Both Jew and Gentile were preached the Gospel with a message to repent; and that is the focus of that statement. If, however, you believe that the message about the coming Kingdom is not relevant to the Gentiles, then you are mistaken. The preaching of the kingdom and our preparation for it is throughout the NT Scriptures, a few of which are Colossians 4:11; II Thessalonians 1:5; and James 2:5.
"Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it. And when he had said these words, the Jews departed, and had great reasoning among themselves. And Paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house, and received all that came in unto him, Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him." Acts 28:28-31
Response continued below...
In response to Anonymous and others I must state again that the issue here is very simple, we are delivered from a sinful nature in Christ. The sinful acts are a result of a sinful nature. When John the Baptist stated, "behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world". The question to ask is how does He take away the sins of the world? He takes away the sins of the world by destroying the sinful nature of the Adamic race when He through the cross crucified the entire Adamic race. The scripture states that by one man (Adam), sin came into the world and through one man (Jesus) sin was taken away. Jesus, as the second Adam destroyed the sinful nature of the first Adam. So now our journey after receiving Christ is one of moving further along the trail into a relationship with the Savior and as a result the things of this world become "strangely dim" just as Paul stated. Don't concentrate on sinning, or failing, or falling, or flaws, or human frailties. Concentrate on Christ. The issue that Maisha is addressing in the article, I believe, is that focusing on the law and then promising salvation if you cease from doing sin is acheiving deliverance and real salvation. A non-fornicating fornicator is not saved, a non-drinking alcoholic is not saved, a non-lying liar is not saved, a non-sodomizing sodomite is not saved because cessation of activity will not kill the nature. Only rebirth and mortification of the sinner will lead to salvation. I will not be stressed out trying to hold back sinful appetites if the sinner is "crucified with Christ and it's no longer I that liveth, but Christ lives within me". Let's focus on the nature of sin, not the peripheral non-essentials. Peace to all the saints.
ReplyDeletePastor Price
4.) In terms of whether it is impossible to cease from sin, perhaps you should take a look at the whole verse in which you reference:
ReplyDelete"My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:" I John 2:1
While God does provide us with an Advocate in Christ, the primary instruction is that we sin not.
"There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it." I Corinthians 10:13
If there is a "way of escape", then there is an avenue God ensures is available so that we do not have to give in to sin. Or else, then we have not truly escaped.
The Scriptures you reference confirm that it is a lie to say we cannot cease from sin. God in fact provides an avenue for us to avoid sin...as well as an Advocate to whom we can avail ourselves if we do. You may also want to read the Book of Romans in this regard about how we are to gain victory over sin. It is also false to claim that future sin is forgiven, for such is not supported by the Scriptures.
5) I am sorry, but you will have to argue with God about what the core problem is.
"And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil." John 3:19
Yes, man has rejected Christ, but the reason Scripture gives for that rejection is that man loves and prefers darkness.
I offer clarity about the Gospel because, although you claim not to need such, your comments indicate that such is definitely needful. I have offered no punches, but merely pointed out some of the false doctrines promoted in the church about sin. May God give wisdom to all with eyes to see.
This might be an edifying message:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.cfcindia.net/video/09_02_183_audio.mp3
I really appreciate your response and I pray you don't mind this open-dialogue.
ReplyDeleteIf you don't mind, could I respond in pieces? Only because there is so much being said and I want to make sure I get your heart.
My first statement/question is...
The word "atonement" and the phrase "take away" possess two different meanings. To "atone" means "to cover," but to "take away" means "to remove." John said that the Lamb takes away the sins of the world, not atones them.
The Old Covenant only atoned (covered) sins, but under the New Covenant sins are not only atoned and we are reconciled to God, but our sins are taken away. Meaning, though we may slip, God deals with us on the terms of the blood of Christ and through this blood, sin and its payment has been satisfied. A good picture of that is the torn veil that seperated a Holy God from a sinful man.
Please understand, I'm not confessing that there is no more sin to God and it no longer offends Him, but what I am saying is that to those who have received the work of redemption (mainly the blood of Christ) by faith...our sins past, present, and future have been factored into the past-tense work of the Cross, so when God deals with us (the saints)..the blood is there.
John explains that "...the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses (not merely atones)us from ALL unrighteousness.
Cleanses is in perpetual form, meaning continuously.
John also explained, "To him who loves us (continuously) and freed (past tense) us from our sins (actions) by His blood.
My point is that the blood of Christ went beyond the Old Covenant covering/atoning and actually took away the effects of our sins, which is seperation. Now do we sin, yes, but because of the blood sin no longer breaks our fellowship with the Father. Now the work of the Holy is to mark this truth, so that though we stumble in our walk, we are not to remain in the practice of sin. The love and goodness of God pulls me away from the practices of the old nature.
Under the Old Covenant, God wanted blood concerning the sins of His people and in His righteousness forgiveness was given. Repentance never satisfied His righteous requirement for the offense.
Repentance was personal to God, but blood was business.
The evidence that proves this is God's broken heart, when Israel did all that was "lawfully required" to be atoned of their sins, but yet their heart was far from God. Obedience is better than sacrifice.
So this proves that God is a God of true fellowship and not sacrifice...this the value of repentance, but repentance doesn't deal with my sins...the blood does.
John the Baptist ministry was based upon repentance, but yet it was invalid without the shedding of blood.
So, "Their sins and lawless acts I will remember no more (Heb 10:17, 18." Why doesn't this cover everything? Paul says that I'm not condemned anymore (Rom 8:1)if I'm in Christ...how is that not all my sins? I'm not talking about practicing sin, but sins that occur due to my under developed walk with Christ.
Paul uses the phrase "He forgave us all our sins..." Forgave is past-tense.
Jehovah's Witnesses preach a gospel that says, the blood of Christ simply gives us a "restart button," but future sins are not included.
This is why I asked for you to clarify.
Once again, I pray you have tolerance for this whole thing and that this is not an issue of my view vs. your view, but let God be true alone. If the blood didn't cover everything...then what's the good news?
Hi Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteOf course. I am happy to dialogue with you. My exhortation to go to the Scriptures was not an indication of my reluctance, but an expression of my belief that the answers you were seeking could be found there.
As it seems that there are many things you would like to discuss in detail about this topic, I think it would be more efficient to move this conversation over to the message board forum. I will respond to you there, and if you desire to continue the dialogue, I ask that you do the same. It is simply more condusive to that type of exchange than this comments section.
You may find the thread here:
http://thelatterdays.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=articles&thread=361