That was a truly convicting message. No matter how far I have come in my walk, I am still at the beginning and I know that I dont know anything. Thank you.
Yes. The more I come to know Him, the more I realize how much more I have yet to know. I thank God for messengers like this who can keep us on our face before our Mighty God.
Disclaimer: I am not trying to teach the author of this blog anything. I am only sharing what I have grown to learn through revelation of Gods word.
I agree and disagree with this video. I agree that some churches only preach on things that aren't of substance; focusing on a "break-through", "increase" and all things material, instead of preaching and teaching Christ. I also believe that there are preachers who only focus on self-righteousness instead of the gift of righteousness through Christ; these types of preachers teach we must preform through our own strength to keep our salvation and right standing with God (this is the message I perceived from the video). However, the bible teaches us that we are now under grace after Christ died and rose. He fulfilled the law and he took all of our sins to the grave. I truly believe that the preachers/pastors of today should focus more on Christ because he is the answer to sin, holiness, victory, prosperity, healing, faith, love and so on. But, most preachers can't teach about what Christ has done because they don't know themselves.
It matters not if you are trying to teach me anything. If what you have to say is from the Lord, then it should be heard by everyone (including myself).
When we repent and turn in faith to God, we have entered into a covenant with Him. Salvation is the result of the covenant relationship, but do not be mistaken in thinking that the covenant is unconditional. There are responsibilities we have for keeping that covenant with God which includes our continued obedience to Him, or as Christ said, our abiding in Him.
Yes, we are saved by grace. However, is it possible for us to turn God's grace into lasciviousness (Jude 1:4)? Can we frustrate God's grace (Galatians 2:21)? Can we do despite to the Spirit of grace (Hebrews 10:29)? Can we fail grace of God's grace (Hebrews 12:15)? Can we fall from grace (Galatians 5:4)?
Peter says that the "true grace" of God is outlined for us in his letter I Peter. I would recommend studying that book so as to not have a false understanding of the grace of God.
If you feel that the message in this video is unbiblical, then I can only say with all lovingkindness that perhaps you are one of the very ones who needs this message. I pray that you listen once more with open ears - comparing Scripture with Scripture - the message being spoken by these men.
May the truths of God alone - not any man or woman - pierce our hearts and draw us closer to the truth in Christ.
If the message in the video is what I perceived then yes I believe it to be contrary to scripture. I will not hit on every point you made because I am not interested in a debate; however, I want to address the question "can we fall from grace (Galatians 5:4)?" because it stood out to me.
My answer to this is absolutely! Before I explain why I will say that I purpose to study the Scriptures in the its contexts and if you look at this particular verse in its context you will see what Paul is talking about with the help of the Holy Spirit.
If you read Galatians 4:21 - 30 He uses Abraham and his two sons, one born of the bondwoman and one born of the free woman; to illustrate the two covenants, law and Grace. He ends in verse 31 saying "So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman but of the free."
Now if we continue to chapter 5 he starts by saying:
"Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free,and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage."
What yoke of bondage is he talking about? Answer: The yoke of bondage to the law, the first covenant. Christ wants us to walk in the freedom he has provided us when he died on the cross and rose from the grave. His blood as stated in Hebrews is not like the blood of bulls and goats which COVERS sin for a year; his blood WASHES sin forever. We are to live in this freedom no longer concerned with the law because he fulfilled the law in His own body. So Paul is saying that we must be confident in this liberty and stop trying to live up to a standard that is fulfilled and that has been done away with.
So, if we continue to read, in the context, Paul says 5:2-4:
"Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. (3) And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law. (4) You have become estranged from Christ, YOU WHO ATTEMPT TO BE JUSTIFIED BY LAW; YOU HAVE FALLEN FROM GRACE.
Who is Paul talking about when he says “you have become estranged from Christ”? According to verse 3 and 4 he is talking about those who seek after the old way of circumcision, those who do “good” outwardly in hopes of being accepted by God. So, according to Paul the reason a person can fall from grace is because they attempt to justify themselves by the keeping of the law instead of accepting the justification that Christ has provided by dying on the cross. I think that is very clear.
With that being said. If we were sitting down together face to face it would be much easier to discuss this with you; because we could search the scriptures and talk freely. This comment section just isn't big enough.
You are correct that the comments section is not the place for such a discussion, and neither am I interested in any debate. Such is futile for there is a plethora of text in Scripture which answers these questions sufficiently.
I do not dispute with you the reasons why Paul said that such persons had fallen from grace. Your summary is accurate as far as I can see.
The issue however - in the terms of the context to which I was responding to you - is not WHY/HOW it is possible to fall from grace, but that such IS indeed possible. It is possible to have received from God the grace by which we are saved and still later "fall" from that grace. It is also possible to frustrate, despise, fail, and pervert that grace.
So obviously, the answer to whether man can forfeit salvation (or whether man has responsibilities in this "new" covenant) is not, "God's gives us grace". Was God's grace just not sufficient to cover these individuals while they ignorantly pursued the law? Of course not. The failure or "fall" was not in God's grace at all, but in these individuals failing to abide in Christ (Gal. 5:4). By your own words, man can fall from the grace which saves us.
So, man had certainly better understand what is involved in being saved and I thank God for men such as those in this video who care enough about men's souls to preach it.
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It's amazing how these messages are some years back...and hold so much weight today...
ReplyDeleteThe Rhema Word is timeless...
Hope all is well...Thanks for sharing!
Your lil bro,
Rashid
Yes, I agree! And I thank God that I am able to call you brother. It has been a true blessing knowing you these years. :-)
DeleteMuch love to you brother!
That was a truly convicting message.
ReplyDeleteNo matter how far I have come in my walk, I am still at the beginning and I know that I dont know anything.
Thank you.
Yes. The more I come to know Him, the more I realize how much more I have yet to know. I thank God for messengers like this who can keep us on our face before our Mighty God.
DeleteDisclaimer: I am not trying to teach the author of this blog anything. I am only sharing what I have grown to learn through revelation of Gods word.
ReplyDeleteI agree and disagree with this video. I agree that some churches only preach on things that aren't of substance; focusing on a "break-through", "increase" and all things material, instead of preaching and teaching Christ. I also believe that there are preachers who only focus on self-righteousness instead of the gift of righteousness through Christ; these types of preachers teach we must preform through our own strength to keep our salvation and right standing with God (this is the message I perceived from the video). However, the bible teaches us that we are now under grace after Christ died and rose. He fulfilled the law and he took all of our sins to the grave. I truly believe that the preachers/pastors of today should focus more on Christ because he is the answer to sin, holiness, victory, prosperity, healing, faith, love and so on. But, most preachers can't teach about what Christ has done because they don't know themselves.
Hello Anonymous,
DeleteIt matters not if you are trying to teach me anything. If what you have to say is from the Lord, then it should be heard by everyone (including myself).
When we repent and turn in faith to God, we have entered into a covenant with Him. Salvation is the result of the covenant relationship, but do not be mistaken in thinking that the covenant is unconditional. There are responsibilities we have for keeping that covenant with God which includes our continued obedience to Him, or as Christ said, our abiding in Him.
Yes, we are saved by grace. However, is it possible for us to turn God's grace into lasciviousness (Jude 1:4)? Can we frustrate God's grace (Galatians 2:21)? Can we do despite to the Spirit of grace (Hebrews 10:29)? Can we fail grace of God's grace (Hebrews 12:15)? Can we fall from grace (Galatians 5:4)?
Peter says that the "true grace" of God is outlined for us in his letter I Peter. I would recommend studying that book so as to not have a false understanding of the grace of God.
If you feel that the message in this video is unbiblical, then I can only say with all lovingkindness that perhaps you are one of the very ones who needs this message. I pray that you listen once more with open ears - comparing Scripture with Scripture - the message being spoken by these men.
May the truths of God alone - not any man or woman - pierce our hearts and draw us closer to the truth in Christ.
If the message in the video is what I perceived then yes I believe it to be contrary to scripture. I will not hit on every point you made because I am not interested in a debate; however, I want to address the question "can we fall from grace (Galatians 5:4)?" because it stood out to me.
DeleteMy answer to this is absolutely! Before I explain why I will say that I purpose to study the Scriptures in the its contexts and if you look at this particular verse in its context you will see what Paul is talking about with the help of the Holy Spirit.
If you read Galatians 4:21 - 30 He uses Abraham and his two sons, one born of the bondwoman and one born of the free woman; to illustrate the two covenants, law and Grace. He ends in verse 31 saying "So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman but of the free."
Now if we continue to chapter 5 he starts by saying:
"Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free,and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage."
What yoke of bondage is he talking about? Answer: The yoke of bondage to the law, the first covenant. Christ wants us to walk in the freedom he has provided us when he died on the cross and rose from the grave. His blood as stated in Hebrews is not like the blood of bulls and goats which COVERS sin for a year; his blood WASHES sin forever. We are to live in this freedom no longer concerned with the law because he fulfilled the law in His own body. So Paul is saying that we must be confident in this liberty and stop trying to live up to a standard that is fulfilled and that has been done away with.
So, if we continue to read, in the context, Paul says 5:2-4:
"Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. (3) And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law. (4) You have become estranged from Christ, YOU WHO ATTEMPT TO BE JUSTIFIED BY LAW; YOU HAVE FALLEN FROM GRACE.
Who is Paul talking about when he says “you have become estranged from Christ”? According to verse 3 and 4 he is talking about those who seek after the old way of circumcision, those who do “good” outwardly in hopes of being accepted by God. So, according to Paul the reason a person can fall from grace is because they attempt to justify themselves by the keeping of the law instead of accepting the justification that Christ has provided by dying on the cross. I think that is very clear.
With that being said. If we were sitting down together face to face it would be much easier to discuss this with you; because we could search the scriptures and talk freely. This comment section just isn't big enough.
Hi Anonymous,
DeleteYou are correct that the comments section is not the place for such a discussion, and neither am I interested in any debate. Such is futile for there is a plethora of text in Scripture which answers these questions sufficiently.
I do not dispute with you the reasons why Paul said that such persons had fallen from grace. Your summary is accurate as far as I can see.
The issue however - in the terms of the context to which I was responding to you - is not WHY/HOW it is possible to fall from grace, but that such IS indeed possible. It is possible to have received from God the grace by which we are saved and still later "fall" from that grace. It is also possible to frustrate, despise, fail, and pervert that grace.
So obviously, the answer to whether man can forfeit salvation (or whether man has responsibilities in this "new" covenant) is not, "God's gives us grace". Was God's grace just not sufficient to cover these individuals while they ignorantly pursued the law? Of course not. The failure or "fall" was not in God's grace at all, but in these individuals failing to abide in Christ (Gal. 5:4). By your own words, man can fall from the grace which saves us.
So, man had certainly better understand what is involved in being saved and I thank God for men such as those in this video who care enough about men's souls to preach it.