tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-793573695603056525.post1836040689248096395..comments2024-01-17T10:24:25.719-05:00Comments on The Latter Days: What Can We Know About the Rapture?Latter Days Ministryhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15405696673350225699noreply@blogger.comBlogger34125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-793573695603056525.post-92067075321900899622012-11-18T08:51:55.824-05:002012-11-18T08:51:55.824-05:00Hello Anonymous,
I am assuming that the number of...Hello Anonymous,<br /><br />I am assuming that the number of anonymous postings done on 11/17 were all by the same person due to proximity of post timing. This is clearly an important topic for you and I thank you for sharing your thoughts.<br /><br />The "day" to which no man knows (not even Jesus) is a reference primarily to the day of His return (Matt. 24:36). Now, as stated above, I do believe that the rapture is connected with that day. There are things which God says we can know; and things which He says we cannot know. So while I agree that we should not be caught unawares (as says the Scriptures), it is foolish to attempt to predict what God says He <b>will not allow</b> us to know. <br /><br />Those who promoted May 21st did not do so as a day when "something spiritual" would happen in regards to Jesus' return, but as the day when the rapture would occur. That has proven wrong. When prophecies fail, we must be careful not to <i>spiritualize</i> them in order to hold on to them as still being somehow accurate. If we are not humble and honest in admitting our error, then how can God ever deliver us from that which caused the delusion? In such cases we run the risk of being further deceived and led farther away from the truth.<br /><br />I do not believe that the door to the ark has been sealed yet (i.e. everyone who will be saved has been saved), but I do believe that the church age is winding up. Clearly, when God is finished dealing with the church, He turns His attention to back to Israel (Matt. 24:32).<br /><br />God does use the foolishness of the world to confound the wise. However, God Himself is not foolish. If He says will cannot know this day, then we will not know this day until it happens.<br />Latter Days Ministryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15405696673350225699noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-793573695603056525.post-1400594744813076982012-11-17T20:33:47.923-05:002012-11-17T20:33:47.923-05:00You can call May 21 foolishness.... But, that da...You can call May 21 foolishness.... But, that date is mentioned in scripture. It isn't a date pulled out of a anyone's imaginations... or fictional novels.....maybe you didn't take the time to look into the Bible to see where it is found... so I can understand you thinking it's foolish. Please remember, God uses the foolish things of the world to confound the wise.<br /><br />You're probably are stuck on that one verse... No Man Knows. <br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-793573695603056525.post-20766465529776652812012-11-17T20:29:25.315-05:002012-11-17T20:29:25.315-05:00THEN WHY ARE THE EPHESIANS REFERRED TO AS THE ELEC...THEN WHY ARE THE EPHESIANS REFERRED TO AS THE ELECT?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-793573695603056525.post-20371593822893959722012-11-17T20:28:31.439-05:002012-11-17T20:28:31.439-05:00I am one of those who proclaimed the May 21 messag...I am one of those who proclaimed the May 21 message and we indeed have many verses to back us up. We are not monolithic and did not all agree to the fine details ...but what we did teach (and many of still do believe ) is that May 21 2011 was an important date... JUDGMENT day. <br /><br />The commenter below says, that we were/are wasting our time searching the Scriptures, that is his opinion ... and he bases it only on one scripture "of that day and hour knoweth no man". There are other verses that apparently contradict his understanding of the No Man Knows verse... which he is ignoring. A Wise Man discerneth both Time and Judgment is just one.<br /><br />We May 21 ers are very devout, frugal people. We are zealous evangelists and We certainly were not trying to deceive or merchandise the Gospel. No one MADE MONEY off the message. In fact, our families and friends and strangers have maligned us. I've even had rocks thrown at me.<br /><br />Just some things to think about: Adam and Eve died the day they ate the forbidden fruit? think about it.<br /><br />Nineveh was overthrown 40 days after Jonah preached? think about it.<br /><br />Israel was cursed when Jesus cursed the FIg Tree? think about it.<br /><br />All of these Judgments most certainly played out the way God wanted them to but you couldn't SEE them with your physical eyes.<br /><br />We "May 21ers" sincerely (not deceptively) believe that God does reveal information to His Elect in His Own Good Time. Just one example is the plan of Salvation. Abraham had no clear understanding of Jesus . We adhere strictly to the Bible, but we do believe in Progressive Revelation...not through newspapers. We compare Spiritual with Spiritual... scripture with scripture and hope GOd will guide us.<br /><br />We also believe that there is Hidden Manna within the Scriptures ... seals that will be unsealed when God gets ready. The Geneologies of Gen5 & 11 along with information elsewhere in the Bible show that God does indeed have a Timeline within Scripture that leads to the end times. Daniel was told this. We know that KNOWLEDGE will increase. <br /><br />Someone previously stated on here that there is knowledge that Jesus warns His Own to not be Ignorant of. Well, we sincerely believe that the date of May 21, 2011 was an important date insofar as Judgment began on that date and all of those GOd intended to Save were saved. Like Noah, who was a preacher of righteousness we were commanded to proclaim it. God gave Noah a 7 day warning. We believe we (the world) were given a 7,000 year warning to get in the Ark (get saved).<br /><br />Anyway, if you're truly interested, that is some of what we believe in a nutshell.<br /><br />We're still out here. Just like in Acts 16, Paul and Silas sang a song AT MIDNIGHT and then there was a great earthquake. We're still here. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-793573695603056525.post-67944940036171498482012-11-17T20:08:35.211-05:002012-11-17T20:08:35.211-05:00You said "the body" will be raptured bas... You said "the body" will be raptured based on 2 Thess. It doesn't say that. Neither does Daniel (to which it is referring). It says.....HE , HE , HE , HE , HE (not "the body" as you say, or those, or SHE... since the Church is referred to as SHE). It is HE who restrains will let until HE will be taken out of the way.... He is THE HOLY SPIRIT . <br /><br />Saying that the 2 Thess. verse is speaking of the Church being raptured is not the only interpretation... as Pre Tribbers think theirs is the only interpretation.... There have been many more historical interpretations of that verse before Jesuit Rivera and Spritist Scoffield arrived at that conclusion. Please... Please.... stop relying on LaHaye, Scoffield, Van Impe, Lindsey and read your Bible. Also, please look into what the Reformers taught just to educate yourself. <br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-793573695603056525.post-47928765224941649552012-11-17T19:57:28.408-05:002012-11-17T19:57:28.408-05:00I agree. In Genesis, God repeats himself... for e...I agree. In Genesis, God repeats himself... for example He tells of the 6 days of Creation then retells it. Exodus, Leviticus are repeats, Kings and Chronicles are repeats, The Prophets repeat the same themes, THe four Gospels repeat themselves. It is true.... Revelation is basically repeating the themes of ChurCh History / Tribulation / Rapture over and over... from chapter to chapter. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-793573695603056525.post-69256465943121557962012-11-17T19:53:44.031-05:002012-11-17T19:53:44.031-05:00I really like your comment. The Sun represents ...I really like your comment. The Sun represents the Gospel in the Scriptures and the Moon the Law.... I mean, is ther a lady wearing the Sun and Standing on the Moon travailing in childbirth? It is clearly metaphorical.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-793573695603056525.post-49015835015449789832012-11-17T19:49:21.502-05:002012-11-17T19:49:21.502-05:00It's the opposite.
So many Pretribbers are ...It's the opposite. <br /><br />So many Pretribbers are NOT EXPECTING to go through the Tribulation.... and the day will come on them unawares. NO WHERE IN SCRIPTURE DOES IT SAY THERE WILL BE A 7 YEAR TRIBULATION. You are interpreting Daniels 70th week that way but it doesn't say it.<br /><br />Think about it....if Pretribbers are correct, and the rapture precedes the tribulation and it is indeed a 7 yr tribulation then it would be easy for those people who are left behind to caculate when Christ would return and Judge the World... it would be 7 yrs after the Rapture.... but it can't be right... because that would contradict Scripture No Man Knows.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-793573695603056525.post-38291021546485717932012-11-17T19:42:45.080-05:002012-11-17T19:42:45.080-05:00Your view is the same dispensational view everyone...Your view is the same dispensational view everyone is already familiar with from all books, tapes, movies, televangelists... it originated with a Roman Catholic Jesuit... and It's just wrong on so many levels. <br /><br />Are you familiar with other views? You're probably steeped in The Scoffield, Hal Lindsey and Jack Van Impe View. I hope I don't sound harsh, but so many so called Christians are duped by this PreTrib / Dispensational Jesuit creation.... That God is going to save in 2 ways, one way for the Jews and a second way for the Gentiles. That's what Scoffield and Lindsey and Van Impe and Tim LaHaye and so many Pretribbers teach. 2 Ways to salvation. Heresy.<br /><br />Further, Scripture clearly says that the Man of Sin will take his seat in the Temple BEFORE the rapture. Yet, a Jewish Temple hasn't been built and we are more than a generation past the Nation of Israel's birth. The time period of the generation of the Fig Tree is up and no Jewish Temple and no Man of Sin sitting in it... so that Left Behind type interpretation is a wrong interpretation of the Scriptures. Sorry but this is something you don't hear from Lindsey and Van Impe, Left Behind etc. They conveniently gloss over this Scriptural fact. Man of Sin must be sitting in a Jewish Temple before the Rapture to be consistent with their reading of Scripture.<br /><br />Another thing Pretribbers ovelook....The Remnant (God's Elect) will be LEFT BEHIND. Remnant means The Remaingin....Being Left Behind is a good thing. Noah was left behind. Lot was left behind. The unsaved were destroyed. The tares will be taken away, just like the flood waters took away the unsaved of Noah's day. The Fire and Brimstone took away the men of Sodom. Read Matthew 24 again. The World will pass away. The Saved will Remain.<br /><br />Left Behind the Fictional Novel is Satan's Smokescreen. Many so called Christians believe it and read it more than the Bible. How can the 144,000 jews evangelize a world with no Holy Spirit present? And then, once the jews are converted, why on earth would God want them to take up animal sacrifices again?<br /><br />Last point, for over 40 yrs the Pretribbers told us that Russia, China and the United Nations (made of 10 nations) would attack Israel. Well, when the European Union passed 10 nations and after the Soviet Union fell, they slowly changed their teaching. Recently, I heard Pat Robertson say that there are 2 legs on Nebuchadnezzar's Statue and that one leg represents the EU and the other Islam? ridiculous. <br /><br />Sorry for rambling but my brother and many people I know are PreTribbers and have no clue otherwise. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-793573695603056525.post-1783049906530676542011-07-29T14:09:36.813-04:002011-07-29T14:09:36.813-04:00Hi Anonymous,
Any analogies or symbolism given in...Hi Anonymous,<br /><br />Any analogies or symbolism given in Scripture must have a basis in Scripture. Otherwise, we can say that things are representative of whatever we want.<br /><br />Enoch was translated because of his faith or belief (Heb. 11:5). There is no separation between his being a believer and his being translated.<br /><br />Paul may have classified the <i>world</i> in 3 groupings, but never was salvation grouped in such a manner. One is either saved or not...in such case, Jew and Gentile unbelievers would be in the same boat. The Jews who do not believe in in Christ are not "believers". <br /><br />Lastly, we know that Noah (who was not a Jew) was a righteous man - which is why he was saved. If the assumption is that those who believe will be spared, then why wasn't Noah translated like Enoch?<br /><br />There is simplicity in the word of God when we let Scripture define Scripture. As in the video above, the Scriptures are clear that Christians will indeed go through tribulation. There is not one text which says we shall be spared (although we are promised to be spared from God's wrath).Latter Days Ministryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15405696673350225699noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-793573695603056525.post-40468697197434895482011-07-29T13:46:10.470-04:002011-07-29T13:46:10.470-04:00I just finished listening to a commentary about th...I just finished listening to a commentary about the rapture. The teacher equated the rapture to the the events preceding the flood. He said that the world was broken down into 3 categories: those who didn't believe, those who believed, and Enoch who didn't die but was translated (raptured). He said that Paul classified the world into 3 categories: Gentiles, Jews, and the Church. So we can surmise that there are the sinners who will endure the tribulation, remnant Jews who will be kept through the tribulation, and the Church who will be taken out of the tribulation. <br /><br />Is Enoch a symbol of the church?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-793573695603056525.post-71618407169242781882011-05-21T07:28:59.338-04:002011-05-21T07:28:59.338-04:00In light of all the foolishness about "raptur...In light of all the foolishness about "rapture dates:, I wanted to address one more point about this timing.<br /><br />There was an earlier contention above that the rapture of the church is what is referenced in II Thessalonians 2:7. Although I showed that this is wrong because the Body of Christ, the Church, the Bride are never referred in masculine identity, the Scripture itself proves that such a contention is in error.<br /><br />II Thessalonians Chapter 2 <i>starts</i> with Paul telling the church what has to happen before the rapture or what he calls our gathering together with Christ (verse 1). The <b>entire purpose</b> of this portion of the letter is to reassure them that the rapture has not happened yet and cannot happen until two things occur.<br /><br />The two things which <b>must</b> happen before we are gathered together with Christ are: 1) A falling away from the faith, and 2) the man of sin is <b>revealed</b>.<br /><br />The man of sin is not revealed until verse 8. Therefore, the removing of what stands in the way of this removal <b>cannot</b> be the Church. Paul is quite clear that the rapture will not happen until after this man is revealed (verse 1).<br /><br />"<b>Let no man deceive</b> you by any means: for <b>THAT DAY shall NOT come, except</b> there come a <i>falling away</i> first, <b>and</b> that <i>man of sin be revealed</i>, the son of perdition." II Thessalonians 2:3<br /><br />People need to be prepared. The saints of God <b>will</b> go through tribulation, persecution, martyrdom, etc. There is no such thing as a rapture which takes the Church away from such things. The first saints were not raptured from such events and neither shall we be.<br /><br />This is not news to those parts of the Body in the world who presently endure persecutions. It is only a hard thing to understand for those who have been able to practice Christianity freely. Yet, even this will change as the words of truth become increasingly censored, even in such places where there may have been freedom before.<br /><br />I suggest that all get sober and get ready. Don't be lulled to sleep with lies and deceived. Seek God for His truths in this area and be strengthened to stand in the midst of arduous conditions. Redeem the times.<br /><br />"Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light. See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise, Redeeming the time, because the days are evil. Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is." Ephesians 5:14-17Latter Days Ministryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15405696673350225699noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-793573695603056525.post-82918507912976348412011-05-14T14:38:26.902-04:002011-05-14T14:38:26.902-04:00The elect are those whom God has called and chosen...The elect are those whom God has called and chosen.Latter Days Ministryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15405696673350225699noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-793573695603056525.post-1244020205053085152011-05-14T14:33:13.170-04:002011-05-14T14:33:13.170-04:00you must understand who the elect are, they are th...you must understand who the elect are, they are the Jews, the chosen ones............<br />ccAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-793573695603056525.post-89136642362613803962011-04-20T10:01:16.270-04:002011-04-20T10:01:16.270-04:00Hi Anonymous,
Jesus has given us signs to look ou...Hi Anonymous,<br /><br />Jesus has given us signs to look out for so that we are prepared and not caught unawares, but no man knows the day or the hour, but the Father (Matthew 24:36, Mark 13:32). <br /><br />So people who spend time trying to determine the exact time this is going to occur are at best wasting their time, and at worst trying to deceive.<br /><br />Our relationship with the Lord as His Bride mirrors very closely the old Jewish rites of marriage. So, there are reasons why only the Father knows, which I talk about briefly here: <a href="http://thelatterdays.blogspot.com/2009/11/once-saved-now-lost-part-3c.html" rel="nofollow">Covenant Responsibilities</a>Latter Days Ministryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15405696673350225699noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-793573695603056525.post-77645308806461055052011-04-19T15:45:09.363-04:002011-04-19T15:45:09.363-04:00Latter Days Ministry,
What are you thoughts conce...Latter Days Ministry,<br /><br />What are you thoughts concerning those who claim they know the exact day of the second coming? There is a group that believes that Jesus will return on May 21, 2011 and they are adamant about their believes. They claim that they have scriptures to back it up. Do you think that it is possible for them to know the exact day?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-793573695603056525.post-27004699248932492792011-04-13T21:09:40.206-04:002011-04-13T21:09:40.206-04:00And yes, it will come just like in the days of Noa...And yes, it will come just like in the days of Noah where people will be marrying and giving in marriage, etc.<br /><br />However, please note that the <b>only</b> ones surprised by the flood were those <i>outside</i> of Noah's family. This day did not come to him as a "theif in the night" and neither will it come to the Church as such...although we still do not know the day nor the hour. Before the judgment of God came forth, God secured His people...amd He will do the same for us again, <b>before</b> His judgments start to be poured out on the earth (Rev. 6).<br /><br />Soooo....you believe that the Bride of Christ is given a <b>masculine</b> identity in II Thess. 2:7? So, before the Church could be raptured, <b>God has to make the Bride male?</b> :-) Whereas God has previously likened the "Body" of Christ to a <i>"wife"</i> (Ephesians 5:23), <b>now</b> God says that this same <i>Body</i>, this same <i>wife</i> is a <b>man</b>? But then, after the rapture when the male-Bride gets to Heaven, he becomes a Bride/Wife again (Rev. 18:23, 21:2,9; 22:17)? I don't even want to consider the implications that presents for God's relationship with the Church. You should know brother that the Scriptures refer to <b>both</b> the Church, the Bride, and the Body as feminine in character.<br /><br />"Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and <b>his wife</b> hath made herself ready." Rev. 19:7<br /><br />"And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee <b>the bride</b>, <b>the Lamb's wife</b>." Rev. 21:9<br /><br />Certainly the stretch to which one must go to try and assert this as the rapture of the Bride is apparent even to you. <br /><br />While I will not attempt to tell you how to understand what I have written, at the same time, I cannot account for assumptions you draw from them beyond what is said. Suffice it to say that what you suggest is my "model" I have never stated.<br /><br />I may have used a joking tone in addressing your comments about the II Thess. 2:7 text, however, it is truly a very serious matter when we start to pervert the word in order to hold to our doctrines. I would caution you to really ask God about the position you have presented here, if for no other matter than to not cause dishonor to God.Latter Days Ministryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15405696673350225699noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-793573695603056525.post-86760440620197491532011-04-13T21:09:15.184-04:002011-04-13T21:09:15.184-04:00Hi Ian,
Perhaps you misunderstood me. I am simpl...Hi Ian,<br /><br />Perhaps you misunderstood me. I am simply pointing you to what the Scriptures say on the matter.<br /><br />"The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, <b>before</b> the great and the terrible day of the LORD come." Joel 2:31<br /><br />"The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, <b>before</b> that great and notable day of the Lord come." Acts 2:20<br /><br />"And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood... For the great day of his wrath <b>is come</b>; and who shall be able to stand?" Revelation 6:12, 17<br /><br />The Scripture is clear that before the day of the Lord comes, these events in the sun and moon will happen.<br /><br />Further, Scripture is also clear that the Church of Jesus Christ is still on earth when these events in the sun and moon happen.<br /><br />"And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring...And when these things <b>begin to come to pass</b>, then <b>LOOK UP</b>, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh." Luke 21:25, 28<br /><br />Jesus doesn't say, "And when these things begin to come to pass, you would have already escaped, but those on the earth should look up because their redemption draws nigh." LOL<br /><br />The people who are to "look up" are the very same ones to whom He has been speaking to in the whole Chapter, His Church. <br /><br />"Immediately <b>AFTER the tribulation of those days</b> shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken...And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together <b>his ELECT</b> from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other." Matthew 24:29, 31<br /><br />People may want to believe that these are tribulation converts, but that is an imagined contrivance which is in no way supported in the text. And this is truly quite an AMAZING omission. <i>WHY?</i> Because Jesus spends quite some time outlying <b>numerous</b> events that will occur towards the end of time, BUT He is quick to say, "The time is not yet nigh." So, sometime between "Nope, not yet" and "Look up your redemption draws nigh" there is a secret rapture which Jesus <b>NEVER</b> mentions or adresses. In fact, He <i>completely ignores</i> the fate of His church during this time? Astounding...and quite honestly, simply not true. Jesus never mentions a previous rapture - even though He starts by discussing events when the church is still on earth. <br /><br />The ones who Jesus comes to gather with Him <b>AFTER</b> the sun has darkened and the moon turned to blood are His <b>elect</b>. As you say, it is very important to consider the whole of Scripture if we sincerely desire His truths.Latter Days Ministryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15405696673350225699noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-793573695603056525.post-49728847977904053152011-04-13T17:59:56.587-04:002011-04-13T17:59:56.587-04:00Thanks for your reply.
You said "Rev. 6:12-1...Thanks for your reply.<br /><br />You said "Rev. 6:12-13 speaks of the sun darkening, moon becoming as blood, and stars falling from the sky" - so is this apocalyptic and earth-shaking scene the "coming as a thief" that Jesus speaks of Rev. 16:15? Seems like an inept metaphor for the Lord to use if that's what he meant. Remember, he tells us that just as in the days of Noah and Lot, people will be buying and selling, marrying and given in marriage in "that day" of his coming. Clearly this cannot describe the same time as the heavens departing like a scroll, but stands in direct contrast to that scene.<br /><br /><br />Paul in 2 Thess. says "that day" can't come unless he who "holds/keeps/restrains/withholds" is taken out of the way. I presume White's video gives an alternate theory about who "he" is, but if there were any question as to who he is, there's little doubt Paul would have missed the chance to explain. Throughout all his epistles, Paul consistently refers to the church indwelt by the Holy Spirit as the body of Christ. This is not a mystery to be solved.<br /><br />2 Thess. tells us once the body is taken out, THEN can that wicked one revealed, but not until then. And for that matter not until Daniel's 70th week commences: for there was no church in Daniel's 69 "weeks" , and there won't be one in the last week either. Tribulation believers, yes, but no ekklesia.<br /><br />Your model suggests that scripture has a definitive starting point for wrath, or that the time of Jacob's trouble is solely the "wrath" of satan. But this idea is to be found nowhere in scripture EXCEPT after he's cast out of heaven knowing he only has but a short time (Rev. 12:12) which again muddies your handling of chronology in Revelation, since that is when the most horrific judgments come upon the earth - not from the enemy but from the Sovereign of the universe. It's this inconsistency that is probably the biggest flaw in the so-called pre-wrath position.<br /><br />And that of course, is without a word on Jesus' promise to come again and receive us to himself in John 14. I thought we were using the whole of scripture! :)Ianhttp://youtube.com/truth4childrennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-793573695603056525.post-53436328787463751002011-04-13T09:22:29.754-04:002011-04-13T09:22:29.754-04:00Hi Anonymous,
I definitely think that there is mu...Hi Anonymous,<br /><br />I definitely think that there is much room for confusion in Revelation due to the type of language used. Yet the clearest texts about the Rapture is outside of that book. I referenced Revelation simply because it lays out the end time events and can provide much insight when aligned with other texts. We can directly correlate Jesus' description of this time in Matthew 24 to Revelation, we can see what happens leading up to the rapture and the day of the Lord.Latter Days Ministryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15405696673350225699noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-793573695603056525.post-1183722350671095142011-04-13T07:59:41.555-04:002011-04-13T07:59:41.555-04:00Is it possible that people misunderstand the event...Is it possible that people misunderstand the events in Revelation because they believe them to be in sequential order? It is my understanding that events in the book are not written in the exact order that they will occur.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-793573695603056525.post-60614551478087836382011-04-12T23:52:01.952-04:002011-04-12T23:52:01.952-04:00This continuing theme of the rapture happening at ...This continuing theme of the rapture happening at the arrival of the day of the Lord is continued in I Thessalonians where Chapter 4 addresses the rapture and then is immediately followed up in Chapter 5 with a discussion on the "day of the Lord" (I Thess. 5:2). This is why we are to "comfort ourselves" (I Thess. 4:18) with the knowledge of the rapture, for it occurs before God's wrath is poured out.<br /><br />Lastly, while I have no doubt that the sun darkening and the moon turning to blood will physically happen, it has also been said that these could be metaphors for the rapture. The light of Christ being removed from the earth (sun darkening) as the Body who reflects His light are martyred and removed (moon turned to blood).Latter Days Ministryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15405696673350225699noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-793573695603056525.post-54323170519055438162011-04-12T23:01:26.925-04:002011-04-12T23:01:26.925-04:00Hi Ian,
The details about the "day of the Lo...Hi Ian,<br /><br />The details about the "day of the Lord" <b>does</b> address the timing of the rapture because that "day" includes the rapture <i>and</i> the Second Coming. <br /><br />Rev. 6:12-13 speaks of the sun darkening, moon becoming as blood, and stars falling from the sky. Rev. 6:17 and Acts 2:20 tell us that this is the <i>beginning</i> of the day of the Lord. In Rev. 7:9, a "great multitude" appears whom we are told are those who have "come out of" great tribulation. <br /><br />We are saved in that "day" (I Cor. 5:5); we must be found blameless in that "day" (I Cor. 1:8); God is continuing to work on us up until that "day" (Phil. 1:6); We must remain sincere and without offense until that "day" (Phil. 1:10); It is a time of rejoicing for the saints in that "day" (Phil. 2:16).<br /><br />Why? Because this is the time when our redemption has come - which is why we are to "look up" (Luke 21:28).<br /><br />Clearly the church does not escape "all" that Jesus references in Luke Chap. 12 because the church is <i>still around</i> in His discussion of the earthquakes, famines, pestilences, betrayals, and martyrdom mentioned through verse 19. So, it is important that we remain true to the context of what Jesus says we <i>will</i> escape.<br /><br />What the church "escapes" is "all" that will happen on that "day" when God's wrath begins to be poured out (Luke 21:34).<br /><br />"<b>Immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days</b> shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and <b>they shall gather together his elect </b> from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other." Matthew 24:29-31Latter Days Ministryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15405696673350225699noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-793573695603056525.post-28148769493552164632011-04-12T21:24:04.765-04:002011-04-12T21:24:04.765-04:00LDM,
I applaud the congenial tone you've struc...LDM,<br />I applaud the congenial tone you've struck on what is IMO the most divisive eschatological topic for the church, but let's face it, Jesus himself was not one to muddy the waters theologically or otherwise(Matt. 12:30) so when we take a stand on the harpazo we should be prepared to defend it and not defer to another person's position.<br />Keeping that in mind, I was surprised to find you give such a shaky exegesis for Luke 21:36. In context, the Lord is certainly referring to the Second Coming (Luke 21:27), but also refers to an escape (Gr.= "flee out" from "any/every/all") in v. 35 - a reference that clearly distinguishes between the two, for (here)the parousia/coming is distinctly in contrast to the ekpheugō/escape. <br /><br />Your response to Proverbs28nine only addresses "the day" -- which appears to reference the time of His coming --- but does not at all support or refer to "the escape". And here Christ is clearly teaching an escape or fleeing out; one doesn't need to be a scholar to put this into context. <br /><br />You also seem to indicate God's wrath "begins" in Rev. 6, but the church (not trib believers, but the ekklesia age)isn't mentioned again after Rev. 4. The day of the Lord comes as a thief in the night, not as any wrath from satan or otherwise. Why does the Lord describe His coming in the same way as His word describes the beginning of "that day"? Because it is at the same time.<br /><br />For all of the "controversy" over the rapture, as believers one can whittle the argument down to two verses: John 14:1-4 (A) and Luke 21:36 (B).<br /><br />He promises to come and receive us to himself where he has prepared a place for us and where he is also(A), and He promises an escape from all - not pre or post anything, but all/any - of these things that are coming upon the earth (B). If A and B are both true (and I presume you believe they are) then A must precede or concur with B.<br /><br />Any true rapture position must ultimately confront these words from Jesus Christ himself.<br /><br />Thanks for your ministry and God bless.<br /><br />IanIanhttp://youtube.com/truth4childrennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-793573695603056525.post-63469583715894791642011-04-08T02:25:01.691-04:002011-04-08T02:25:01.691-04:00Wow, this is so cool... I just discovered your si...Wow, this is so cool... I just discovered your site tonight (and am about to start watching some of the "Know your Enemy" videos, they look fantastic...) and immidiately I was wondering if you were familiar with Chris White. A couple minutes later, I'm perusing through older posts and here this is! He really did a great job on this one, and so many of his videos are really valuable... <br /><br />Looking forward to looking through more of the stuff you have posted and talk about. (I actually found you through that blog that was making fun of you for suggesting that Beyonce is demon-possessed...) Kind of awesome that most of the people who left comments actually were in support of you (it's pretty encouraging to realize that there <i>are</i> a fair amount of Christians out there who see what's really going on...)<br /><br />...and, just to throw in my two cents on the whole "rapture" thing...<br /><br />I basically came to the exact same conclusion as the one presented in Chris's video, but simply because I finally opened the Word and read what it has to say... II Thessalonians 2 really made it sort of a "done deal" for me, and elminated a lot of the confusion...<br /><br />Anyhow, looking forward to interacting with you all in the future...<br /><br />Peace, DDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14909205711304765847noreply@blogger.com