Well, this is certainly good news for the church. All across the United States, our young people are giving Glory to the Most High as they "Crunk" it up for Christ. In fact, many churches have set-up Christian Youth "Crunk" Ministries to encourage our children in this awesome move of God. If you haven't seen it, then you sure have missed out as our young people's bodies twitch, convulse, and jerk to music. It is like watching a Holy Spirit-inspired Epileptic fit!
A few of these insane asylums....oops, I mean "churches" have the following to say:
"Crunk 4 Christ is to have an uncontrollable enthusiastic praise for Christ that demands a response of his power and Glory. Crunk 4 Christ (known as C4C) is a youth outreach project...[it] serves as a venue for unconventional methods of praise and worship promoted by Youth and Young Adults. "
Even Catholics are getting Crunk, "Speaking to a radio audience every Monday on Q100-FM, he [Father Ricardo Bailey] is known as Father Crunk, a play on the urban term for high energy hip-hop and high-energy people. “Do you have any idea what ‘revive’ means?” he asked the audience. “Revive, my dear friends in Christ, … means get crunk with Jesus.”"
The Fire House's (appropriately named) dance ministry mission is, "To Preach the Gospel through DANCE and Win Souls to Christ. Also, mentor the youth and let them know you can still get crunk and dance for the LORD."
Can we still get crunk and dance for the Lord? Does the Bible indicate that we can offer whatever we want to the Lord and He will just accept it?
"And Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, took either of them his censer, and put fire therein, and put incense thereon, and offered strange fire before the LORD, which he commanded them not. And there went out fire from the LORD, and devoured them, and they died before the LORD." Leviticus 10:1-2
The nation of Israel was celebrating the dedication of the temple. God gave specific instructions about how they were to worship before, and offer sacrifices unto, Him there. Leviticus 9:6 says, "And Moses said, This is the thing which the LORD commanded that ye should do: and the glory of the LORD shall appear unto you."
They did as God instructed. God's Glory appeared. Holy fire came forth to consume the sacrificial offering. The people shouted for joy and bowed down in worship before their awesome God. However, Nadab & Abihu's took it upon themselves to step up and make their own offering to God, one He had not commanded.
Immediately after they were killed, Moses says to Aaron, "This is it that the LORD spake, saying, I will be sanctified in them that come nigh me, and before all the people I will be glorified. And Aaron held his peace." Leviticus 10:3
At this statement, Aaron could not question God's judgment; he held his peace.
Why were Aaron's sons killed? Because the worship God commanded required that His Holiness and His Glory be at the forefront. The whole congreagation was bowed down in submission to, and out of respect for, God. Yet Aaron's sons - driven by self-interest and a desire to be exalted and seen - decided to approach God's altar with their own version of a sacrifice. They were not led by God's Spirit, who was calling the people unto reverence. They were led by an opposing spirit which had them at odds with God. The difference? The sincere worship was glorfying God while the false worship was glorifying self.
Who is being glorified when our children get "Crunk"? In case you do not know, getting "Crunk" refers to someone becoming extremely excitable and crazy by using a combination of drugs and alcohol. They get crazy drunk, i.e. Chronic (marijuana) + Drunk (or Crack + Drunk, Coke + Drunk, etc.) = Crunk.
Sadly, a number of these ministries use Ephesians 5:18 as a justification which says, "And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit." I am sure that Jesus Christ, who was filled with the Spirit beyond measure, was a Crunking All-Star. Can't you just picture Him now, having a Crunk-Off with the Apostles?
Why would a church use such a worldly term to define a youth ministry? Well true to form, they have simply taken what the world was doing, slapped it on an altar, said this was being done as unto the Lord, and now everything is "all good". Nevermind that the so-called pioneer of "Crunk", a rapper named Lil Jon, says that he was inspired to create this genre based on his experiences in Atlanta strip clubs (New York Times Interview, November 28, 2004). Gives a whole new meaning to the term Harlot Church.
The worse thing about this is not just that the youth are bringing demonic practices into the church, but that the "leadership" is encouraging their demise. Embedded below is a perfect example of this idiocy.
This "song" is performed by someone named Lecrae and is called "Represent". The chorus starts off with:
Represent! Get Crunk! Represent! Get Crunk! If you know you're repping Jesus go ahead and throw it up.
Throw up what? My lunch? Because that is how nauseating it is to look at this. What is it that makes man think he can improve on what God has done? We have entire churches rejoicing over new and improved ways to draw people to Christ, that are more about entertaining the flesh than glorifying Jesus.
"Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample. (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ: whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.)" Philippians 3:17-19
These are the enemies of the cross. They do not preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ, who said, "If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me" Matthew 16:24 No, they say. Telling people about Jesus, about God's love, and how He has given His life to save us from our sins is just not crunk enough to attract the younger crowds. God just didn't understand that these generations would need something more than the Gospel to come to Him.
Let's get this out in the open. We are not talking about being holier than thou or not being able to relate to people (of all ages). We are talking about not downgrading the Gospel. Not trying to sanctify the filth of the world. Not being used as a tool of Satan to bind our young people under the guise of witnessing.
This is beyond simply being foolish and silly. It is no small thing to teach prospective or young Christians that they can take the debase things of the world and continue in them as an offering to God. A friend of the world is the enemy of God.
Even the world is mocking the church! In a secular article entitled, "A New Form of Worship", one young blogger had this to say:
"Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't "crunk" a combination of getting [messed up] and drunk? Seriously. Talk about missing the point. I guess we'll all get stoned, grab a 40 and head to church. This got me to thinking, though. Were churches latching onto other trends before this? Were they all "getting grunge for God" in the early '90s? Were the "jump, jivin' and wailin' for Jesus" during that 6 months when swing made a comeback in '97? "Discoing for the divine savior" in the late '70s? I'm just curious, here.
There are lots of possibilities that don't even need to apply to churches and music. Especially in a religious town like this. Need to drum up some traffic for your clinic? "Liposuction for the Lord!" After all, Jesus had much better abs than Buddha, now, didn't he?"
Even this young man can see that there are some things which are just not appropriate in church. He has the audacity to accuse church leadership of pimping the people in order to increase numbers...and he is absolutely right!
Look at how your "youth ministry" witness is being perceived by the very people you claim you want to reach. Now when the world starts calling the church worldly, we really have a problem. It is a shame when the people outside of the church understand the things of God more than those inside.
I would really be interested in hearing from these so called ministries. How does Crunking prepare the youth to live for Christ and be witnesses for Him? How does it bring someone to repentance and convict them about the need for Jesus as their Savior? How does it teach Christians about Godly living and maturing in the faith? What happens when you take the spirit of whoredoms and bring it into your church?
"What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh. But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit." I Corinthians 6:16-17
"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit." Galatians 5:22-25
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21 comments:
Keep up the good work sister!
Hi and enjoyed your post. I also read your Sasha Fierce post, very informative. I knew there was something wrong with creating an "alter ego" anyway.
I just thought that I'd add some information I found on the web about Krump and Crunk. I wonder if some churches are confusiong the two slang terms, apparently they mean different things.
Krump (n) – An aggressive, emotional, and spiritual style of dance known for cutting edge dance moves and intense interactions between performers and spectators. Krumping emerged from South Central Los Angeles in 2000 as a way for dancers to express emotions and different aspects of their personalities as well as a way to cope with the stresses and pressures of everyday life in a constructive manner. In Krumping, a dancer tells a story through the voice of his or her “character” while attempting to advance through three levels of intensity (Krump, Buck, Amp). A dancer mayexpress his or herself in any way, just as long as it is authentic and organic. In Krump, there is no right or wrong way to express one’s self. It is an art form owned by feelings, not words or rules.
http://www.krumpkings.com/krumptionary/krump
History
Krump is similar in form and practice to traditional weapon dances, and for this reason is considered by many African-American krumpers to be symbolic of, or referential to, their tribal roots. Dance "battling," a form of dance where competitors face-off in a direct and aggressive competition, is an integral component of krump in a similar way to the earlier breakdance battles with "dissing" (mocking), and heightened moments of frantic, aggressive arm and chest movements (known as "buck" moves) being common. "Buck" is when internal artistry meets physical expression as per Lil C. Now in the documentary "Rize" Tommy The Clown is the one who is accredited with creating Krump and some of his first dancers were Tight Eyez & Darryl.
[edit] Christian element
For many participants there is a strong Christian spiritual element to the dance.
"Tight Eyez", a key early figure and now krump teacher, regularly speaks of Christian healing and gives praise to Jesus for the upbringing of this movement. The backronym "Kingdom Radically Uplifting Mighty Praise" is now often used by him, and this usage has spread widely
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krump
Traditionally, crunk meant a hoarse, harsh cry.[3] The term is often used as slang to mean intoxicated. Folk etymology suggests the modern usage of crunk originated as a portmanteau of the words "crazy" and "drunk" or having been "cranked up" to a level of excitability at which one becomes "crunk". But it is most accurately defined as being drunk and high at the same time, however Rapper Lil Jon defined crunk as a "state of heightened excitement" to make it sound like a more commercial feeling.
The first popular figures to use the word were Atlanta rappers Outkast, who in their 1993 song and accompanying video "Player's Ball" said, "I gots in crunk if it ain't real ain't right". Outkast also mentions "crunk" in the song "Hootie Hoo" (which was released in 1994 on the same album Southernplayalisticadillacmuzik).
Webster's Dictionary defines "crunk" as a "word of fluctuating meaning used during the 1990s in lyrics of the rap groups OutKast and Lil Jon & The East Side Boyz, a style of Southern rap music featuring repetitive chants and rapid dance rhythms."[1]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crunk
Thanks
This was well sumamrized, but does this mean that other songs by Lecrae, such as Desperate, are wrong to listen to, as a born-again christian youth? Can God not be glorified through christian rap? What about christian contemporary? where can the line of discernment be drawn in what types of music that children of God listen to?
Hi Anonymous,
Thanks so much for your informative post! Let's look at this all from a Christian perspective for a minute.
The similarities between the names and the dance styles seem to be sufficient enough to imply that "Krunk" is a derivative of "Crunk"; especially since "Crunk" was the earlier of the two dance forms. Hopefully the article sets forth why it would be inappropriate to use this term in reference to church activity.
But let's look at "Krunk." Is there any real difference?
Krunk is "aggressive". Does Christ call us to be aggressive with each other? In Matthew 5:39-48, Jesus speaks of loving even our enemies.
It is "emotional". In Christ, we are to be a new creature and old things have passed away. This doesn't mean we do not have emotions, but that we are not "emotional". We are not ruled by our emotions, but our emotions are ruled by the Spirit of God. This is how we can love our enemies, how we can have peace in the midst fo the storm, etc.
Krunk is "spiritual"? Then I would have to ask what spirit it is of. The fruit of the Spirit (or the evidence of the Spirit in operation) is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, and temperance. Are these the attributes exhibited by this dance?
When we have stress or pressure, Jesus tells us to turn our burdens over to Him. Should we direct people to Krunk or to Christ to lift our burdens?
It is similar to weapons dances found in African tribes? Do you realize that individuals in those type of dances were representing their various gods? Before the dance was even to begin, they would paint/decorate their faces and bodies in dedication to their god. Then the confrontation or dance was actually a battle to see which god was stronger.
Further, God has something to say about our weapons. The weapons of our warfare are NOT of this world. Yes, Christians are to fight and engage in battle, but ours is a spiritual war.
Being a Christian is more than just claiming a belief in Jesus. The veracity of that affirmation and one's growth in the faith is seen by our witness. You shall know them by their fruit.
If I claim faith in Christ while I am shacking up with my boyfriend, then my witness is compromised. How effective is my testimony in Christ if the evidence of my life is still worldly? I am not talking about trying to be religious or act a certain way. I am talking about being truly born again.
Even as I evaluate "Krump", I don't find much that distinguishes it from "Crunk". I certainly don't see the fruit to declare this as a move of the Holy Spirit.
This info has been so helpful, but I think it shows itself to also be more "of the world" than of Christ.
God Bless!
Hi Tinuke,
I recently saw a video of Lecrae as he witnessed to other Christian youth. He certainly seemed heartfelt, but also seemed in need of spiritual counsel. What I mean is that it is wonderful to be on fire for the Lord. Yet, the Scriptures indicate that those young in the faith may go off into error and pride without proper oversight. "But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil." Hebrews 5:14
Notice that maturity in the faith is achieved as we are able to discern good from evil. We are told to test the spirits to see if they are of God. Having a lot of emotion about God does not mean we have the proper moorings to know what is Godly. I am not saying that Lecrae is insincere; I am saying that he is misguided. The spirit he has on display is that of the world, not of God. That doesn't mean he doesn't love the Lord. It means that he (like every Christian) must grow up in the Lord to know good from evil. Until then, he should not be teaching others because then he winds up just leading them into error as well. Having a sincere witness is not the sole qualification for teaching.
God tells us that we will sing a new song in Him. He didn't say we would simply sing the old songs and just change the words around. :-) This is the biggest delusion from ministries that prop up these young people in the hopes of drawing in big numbers (and big money). They are failing to teach young people the true essentials of the faith; the essentials they need to endure against that which the devil will bring against them. This leaves them vunerable to being led astray. Instead, they encourage them to bring in their old ways from the world and call it Christ. This principle contradicts the very essence of the new birth experience.
So, how do we know the difference? It is by the spirit behind the song. Songs that glorify God are true praise and worship. When the song plays, does it immediately usher you into the presence of God and focus your mind on Him? Who is on display, God or man? There are some songs that immediately take you back to the mindset of the club. You can even tell by the way you respond to the song that God is the last one you are thinking of.
There is an excitement that can come from the flesh and one that can come from the Spirit. As the Scripture says, it is through growing up in the faith that we are able to understand the difference.
Don't become legalistic or bound by it. Just ask God to lead you to music that HE likes. Ask Him to give you knowledge of what pleases Him...and do that. :-)
I believe that when one sees an article like this, or an entry like this - since there is a comment board, we'd be allowed to speak our mind.
I am a little bit for and a little bit against what it says.
For one thing, "crunking" or what ever you call it, is as I have understood it a way to adress the way they are dancing. But if you are able to use dancing as a form of worship to God what is wrong with it?
If someone can sing and is praising God with their singing, what is wrong with that?
God has given every individual a talent they can use for him. So instead of a person throwing away their ability to worship God with doing all sort of nonsense, they are hailing God with dancing. Now if that's not good, I don't know what is.
Besides, we can not compare "crunking" to rolling up weed and drinking and clubbing. If a girl came to dance ballet in church for God, I am sure no one would have said anything.
God is the one judging,
and I am sure in ecclesiastes he said we are to be young and merry while we are youths, and to do what our hearts desire but know that judgement comes after. So if we can praise him with our talents, I don't see anything wrong with it.
As far as I'm concerned, I don't have anything against people praising God in their own special ways, by contributing either with music or dancing.
In order for people to come to church you must first humble yourself. We are not trying to get worldly here, but to reach out to the world. God can work through music and dancing just the same.
besides, there is also something called being drunk in the spirit. Being so excited for God that you have no manner at all, and do not care anymore what the world has to say about you. Where it all comes down to you and God.
I've said mine, now you
guys say yours
Hello ur kinda girl,
No one said that "dancing" cannot be done as a form of worship to God. In fact, I have led many a Christian Praise dance teams.
The problem your post assumes is that God just accepts anything man wants to offer as "worship." This is simply not true.
Dance ballet? Is "ballet" a word that means violent clubbing and drug abuse?
Do you want to provide the quote for the reference you offer in Ecclesiastes? I am sure a review of the actual text will show you that it does not give the type of license you suggest.
You state what you find acceptable. What about what God finds acceptable? Does that matter?
Where also do you find these Scriptural references for being "drunk in the spirit" as you say?
If you are wondering where I found God saying you must do what ever your heart desires while you are young, but for all things there is judgement.
Look up :
Ecclesiastes 11:7-9 (you may also read unto verse 10 if you please)
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When it comes to being "Drunk in the Spirit": it means being overwhelmed by the Spirit. So overwhelmed that your behaviour is mistaken for being drunk.
A few examples are:
In 1 Sammuel 1, when Elkanah and his barren wife Hannah went to offer sacrifices, and she was praying for a son, and committing him to the Lord.
“As she continued praying before the LORD, Eli observed her mouth.
Hannah was speaking in her heart; only her lips moved, and her voice was not heard. Therefore Eli took her to be a drunken woman.
And Eli said to her, “How long will you go on being drunk? Put away your wine from you.”
But Hannah answered, “No, my lord, I am a woman troubled in spirit. I have drunk neither wine nor strong drink, but I have been pouring out my soul before the LORD.
Do not regard your servant as a worthless woman, for all along I have been speaking out of my great anxiety and vexation.” 1 Samuel 1: 12-16
Also when David son of Jesse, in 2 Samuel 6:14-16.
In other translations, it is mentioned that David danced and was almost stripped off his clothes because of his dancing so uncontrollable - making people think he was drunk.
He was only overwhelmed by the Spirit.
"Truly the light is sweet, and a pleasant thing it is for the eyes to behold the sun: But if a man live many years, and rejoice in them all; yet let him remember the days of darkness; for they shall be many. All that cometh is vanity. Rejoice, O young man, in thy youth; and let thy heart cheer thee in the days of thy youth, and walk in the ways of thine heart, and in the sight of thine eyes: but know thou, that for all these things God will bring thee into judgment. Therefore remove sorrow from thy heart, and put away evil from thy flesh: for childhood and youth are vanity." Ecclesiastes 11:7-10
If you read the text in context, you will see that it does not say what you implied.
God does not say, "we are to be young and merry while we are youths, and to do what our hearts desire..."
Nor does He say, "you must do what ever your heart desires while you are young".
This is a warning to those who are young not to do what you suggest because they will be judged.
God is being facetious here. That is why He continues in the same sentence to say, "but know thou, that for all these things God will bring thee into judgment".
Would God encourage young people do to things that He knows He will judge them for? No. His desire is that all will be saved.
That is why the very next sentence says, "Therefore remove sorrow from thy heart, and put away evil from thy flesh: for childhood and youth are vanity."
According to you, God is saying that young people should or must indulge the flesh. Yet, this is the exact opposite of the counsel God has given. He is saying, "Because you know you will be judged for these things, put them away from you and don't so them. Don't think I will excuse you just because you are young because youth is vanity."
Youth is not an excuse to be foolish, and neither does God treat it as such.
The verses about Hannah have nothing to do with being "drunk in the spirit." The text says quite clearly why she was thought to be drunk and it was not because she was acting uncontrollably. It was because the priest saw her lips moving but no words coming out because she was praying in her heart.
Regarding David, nowhere does it say that he was taken as being "drunk". In fact, it would have been a disgrace for him to even appear to be drunk given the occasion of having the ark (which symbolized the presence of God) returned.
"And David danced before the LORD with all his might; and David was girded with a linen ephod. So David and all the house of Israel brought up the ark of the LORD with shouting, and with the sound of the trumpet. And as the ark of the LORD came into the city of David, Michal Saul's daughter looked through a window, and saw king David leaping and dancing before the LORD; and she despised him in her heart." 2 Samuel 6:14-16
Now, which translation is it that you say implies David was almost stripping and the people thought he was drunk? I know of none such translation.
Clearly. You seem to know a lot more than I do.
I guess people fail to read in-between the lines when they are reading the bible, but also people interpret things differently.
But through the Holy Spirit, things are easier to understand when one is reading the bible.
I still have a lot to learn, but
because you know all these things, does not make you wiser. We are all learning everyday.
And as David danced with all his might, his clothes would have been coming off as in those days they usually wore robes.
In all we do, we pray for better understanding. So in no way am I trying to offend you. I'm just speaking my mind.
It would be nice if you posted something about MaryMary or Kirk Franklin.
Hi Ur Kind of Girl,
No, no, not at all. Knowledge doesn't go for much, but puffing up. I don't mean to give that impression at all and I apologize if I did. We all are learning more about God and the awesome thing is that you too are seeking to know Him more, as I am. In the end, God will want to know that you put your heart and life in His hands. He doesn't care how much we think we know, because we know nothing comparatively. :-)
My point is only that we must make every effort to let the Scriptures speak for themselves. Otherwise, we can wind up misunderstanding who God is and how He wants us to serve Him.
I DO believe in the power of the Holy Spirit in one's life and have experienced that personally. I just think the "drunk in the spirit" phrase can be used to cover a lot of ills. And I am not sure the use of that phrase is always Biblical.
Mary Mary & Kirk Franklin? I will certainly pray on it. They are both worldly entertainers, lots of compromise. Take that "God in Me' song my Mary Mary. The whole song glorifies money and fame. Even look to see who is in the video. Once we start clamoring to be accepted by the world, we will fall into a trap of Satan.
Christians in general need to be comfortable being rejected by the world for even God says that they will reject us as they did Him.
Nonetheless, I wish you much love and peace in Christ Jesus. I appreciate your sharing your feedback here and want you to know you are always welcome - whether we agree on an issue or not.
Thank you.
I appreciate the work you are doing, and pray that God continues to bless your ministry.
Breakdancing/Hiphop is part of our culture. If our culture is considered worldly, and we are not to be a part of it, does God make certain rules in how we are to praise Him? What about drums, are we allowed to use those? Maybe just cymbals?
Getting crunk is pretty much related with having a good time. LeCrae's lyrics "Represent, Get Krunk/Crunk" are about reppin' Jesus, doing it with all your heart, doing it because you enjoy doing it. Another line in the song says "Cause you love the Lord and His habit of salvation, repping like Steven, Getting stoned for the stone you believe in". It's like going all out, souled out for Jesus.
I think that not only is there a cultural difference between you and the 'insane asylums' that do this, but there is most likely a generational difference. I can't expect you to understand my generation's desire to praise God our way, not through hymns or 'contemporary worship', but using OUR culture, our way of life and giving it up to God. I had to go and look up the verses you quoted in my NIV Bible because I couldn't understand them in Old English. What about tribal converts in Africa, people that are used to dancing and telling stories through dance? Once they become converts, are they supposed to sit down and praise God in hymns translated into their language, to a piano? No! They praise God in the way fitting to their culture, by drum beats and dancing! Christianity doesn't have it's own culture, it is CROSS-cultural!
You may not like the word crunk, and I don't blame you. It does have negative connotations. But it is possible to change words' meanings. I could give you a list of words as an example, but while you may consider them crude/impolite, 20-50 years ago you wouldn't have thought so. Who are you to judge what is 'right' and 'wrong' in the eyes of the Lord? As for calling them enemies of the cross, I personally take offense at that. I myself enjoy listening and working to the music of LeCrae. I may not dance to it, but I don't blame those who do have the talents to do so for wanting to use them for Jesus. How can you know what is truly in their hearts as they dance?
What I'm trying to say, through all of this rambling, is that you are too quick to judge that which is not of your culture, not of your way of living. I would encourage you to also seek out GOOD things youth and their leaders are doing, to encourage them. Do not openly condemn that which you do not fully understand. Encourage. Lift up. And 'throw it up' (be willing to represent) for Jesus!
Hi Joy,
I think your comments are heart-felt and I can understand what you are saying.
The problem I see, however, is that you seem to think that praising God is something that you, I, or any generation can define. It isn't. We do not define what is acceptable to God. He defines what is acceptable.
God does not just accept anything we give Him as praise. It has to come from a pure heart. It has to be pleasing in His sight. It has to be a reflection of His holiness. It has to reverence Him.
This is not about a generation gap, but a gap for many in understanding who God is and appreciating His holiness and power. God does not have to understand our "culture". He is the same no matter what worldly trends are in vogue; He changes not.
Examine how the Scriptures speak of praise. Then honestly think about whether "getting crunk" fits the guidance God gives us about how we should praise Him.
Take Psalm 66:2 for example:
"Sing forth the honour of his name: make his praise glorious."
The word "glorious" here means: honour, reverence, dignity. Is "crunking" honorable? Reverential? Dignified?
Look, we are not trying to be legalistic here. And you are right that each generation is somewhat different. But the bottom line is that we must look to God to see what He thinks, what He likes, what He wants, and what He says.
He does not give us the liberty of saying, "I will do what I feel in my heart and that will be pleasing to God." The Bible says the heart is desperately wicked. The measure for what is Godly is not what we think, what we feel, or how we feel...it is what saith the Lord.
One more thing Joy. When I speak of distinguishing between true praise and worldly manifestations, I am not talking about trying to be or act "holy" by outward works. I am not speaking of covering your body from head to toe, keeping your head bowed down, praying all loud, etc. I am speaking of the spirit behind the praise.
God is a spirit and those who worship do so in spirit and in truth. The spirit behind true praise is glorious, reverential, holy because it is a reflection of God being lifted up. This is not the spirit behind "getting crunk".
You acknowledge yourself where this word comes from and what it means. You say it has negative connotations. But what, I ask you, is the spirit it carries? What spirit - which comes from the strip clubs and glorifies drugs and violence - can then be used as a means of giving praise to God?
Everything is not this surface innocent thing that the world would have us to believe. To know God is to understand that there is a spiritual battle underway. We are to know no man after the flesh, but to discern the spiritual things whether they be of God.
I have to say,you're doing a good job. But I disagree with you one certain things. You yourself says God judges the intentions of the heart. The Bible affirms it, I believe it, that does it. I'm from Nigeria. If the only way I knew to dance before I got saved was the way us Igbos dance, what's wrong if i dance the ssame way, HAVING THE MIND OF PRAISING AND WORSHIPPING GOD?
I dont think what Not Ur Kinda Gurl was saying about man worshipping God however he WANTS to. She must've meant - forgive me for being presumptious - that you praise God with what you have, the best way you know how... and God loves it because it's from A SINCERE HEART!
You talk about how crumping is violent. It looks violent, sure, but do you know what is IN the dancer's heart? When people fall and roll about under the power of the Holy Spirit, would you then say that it is NOT the spirit of God operating because "all that falling about seems so violent?"
One last thing... the fact is, there's a large number of youth unsaved, who are being won to Christ BECAUSE of such dance ministrations, expecially where there's a message attached to it. The Lord uses dance. Just because a kinda dance was once used to the glory of the world does not mean a convert cannot use it to the glory of God... except for all the lewd provocative stuff, anyways. Satan once used to head up music... does that now mean I mustnot sing to the glory of God too?
Im not trying to start up beef here, I'm seeking the Truth like you, I have the Holy Spirit like you, and when He tells me something ain't right, it ain't and I drop it. Just check out 2 Samuel 6:20. Lemme know what you think of that. I have the NIV version, btw. Thanx... And I should add, you're doing a great job. Grace and peace to you from God. Amen!!!
HI Anonymous,
What does the following mean to you?
"Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." II Corinthians 5:17
The question is not whether God looks at the heart. He does. The question is whether what resides in the heart is of the Lord or not. If everything we did before was acceptable to God, then there would be no need for us to have to be washed and made new. Only dirty things are washed.
In terms of the Holy Spirit moving, when does the Holy Spirit moving begin and demonstration of demonic activity begin? The Holy Spirit can fall on someone, but is their behavior the result of Holy Spirit inspiration or the reaction of demons to the presence of the Holy Spirit?
Yes, there are seeing spiritual manifestations, but don't assume that the inspirations behind those manifestations are always the Holy Ghost. Even when the Holy Spirit is moving, demons can react. With the possessed boy described in Scripture, it is the presence of the Holy Spirit which was being reacted to, but it was the demon which actually threw the boy to the ground (Mark 9:20-26).
Again, the important thing is what spirit is inspiring the behavior.
Scripture says, "And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force." Matthew 11:12
The spiritual war we fight is violent, and God equips us as His battle ax.
The review of getting Crunk was not because it is "violent", but because of what it glorifies, i.e. getting crazy drunk and messed up in order to be violent.
This is not about dance ministries. I have led many a dance ministry in my years with the Lord and dance can certainly be used to glorify Him. However, do not be misled into thinking that just because this is what you have known, that makes it acceptable to God. That is not the expectation He lays out for us in Scripture.
It is not, bring to me what you have known and make it an offering. It is give your lives as an offering and He will make you new, with old things passing away. If there was nothing wrong with our old things we knew in the world, there would be no reason for God to make this distinction.
"Then David returned to bless his household. And Michal the daughter of Saul came out to meet David, and said, How glorious was the king of Israel to day, who uncovered himself to day in the eyes of the handmaids of his servants, as one of the vain fellows shamelessly uncovereth himself!" II Samuel 6:20
Examine Michal's concern. She was not concerned about how David was glorifying the Lord. She was concerned about how he might appear to the handmaidens. She was jealous. Yet David by his own words was lowering himself in humility before the Lord. Showing himself to be nothing so in comparison to the glory of the Lord.
Is this what you say crunking represents? Is it a type of humility or self-exaltation? Does glorify God by placing all emphasis on Him, or does it cause one to glorify one's self and one's own abilities?
God does not call us to bring the things of the world and lay them at His feet. He calls us into newness of life as we separate from those things which defile.
I appreciate your comments and trust that God's Spirit will continue to lead us both as we follow - whether we agree in this matter or not.
God Bless!
Okay so I didn't really read a lot of this i kinda skimmed and a lot of poeple are saying some good things I just wanna throw out a couple things I saw.
First in the main article i saw, "Even the world is mocking the church! "
It was said in way like it was bad. Heck yea the world should be mocking the church or we are prolly doing something wrong.
John 15:18-20
If the world hates you, know that it has hated me before it hated you. 19 If you were of the world, the world would love you as its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. 20Remember the word that I said to you: 'A servant is not greater than his master.' If they persecuted me, they will also persecute you.
Acts 5:40-42
So they took his advice, 40and when they had called in the apostles, they beat them and charged them not to speak in the name of Jesus, and let them go. 41Then they left the presence of the council, rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer dishonor for the name. 42And every day, in the temple and from house to house, they did not cease teaching and preaching Jesus as the Christ.
So if the world is mocking these people its probably more of a good thing than a bad.
2nd thing in one comment i saw something about how worship was supposed to be dignified. And the heart of the comment was good we are to honor God and regard him as holy. But we are also called to love him and to praise him with joy. In 2 Samuel David showed us how to praise God by becoming undignified. Because when we look like a fool in the eyes of men for God, God is pleased. And yes David when he danced was stripped of the majority of his garments if you read the whole passage carefully and it was in front of a whole lot of poeple and therefore would have seemed disrespectful for the king of all Isreal to do so, but David was a man after Gods own heart (thats in acts somewhere) that he didn't care.
2 Samuel 6: 14-23
4 Then David danced before the LORD with all his might; and David was wearing a linen ephod. 15 So David and all the house of Israel brought up the ark of the LORD with shouting and with the sound of the trumpet.
16 Now as the ark of the LORD came into the City of David, Michal, Saul’s daughter, looked through a window and saw King David leaping and whirling before the LORD; and she despised him in her heart. 17 So they brought the ark of the LORD, and set it in its place in the midst of the tabernacle that David had erected for it. Then David offered burnt offerings and peace offerings before the LORD. 18 And when David had finished offering burnt offerings and peace offerings, he blessed the people in the name of the LORD of hosts. 19 Then he distributed among all the people, among the whole multitude of Israel, both the women and the men, to everyone a loaf of bread, a piece of meat, and a cake of raisins. So all the people departed, everyone to his house.
20 Then David returned to bless his household. And Michal the daughter of Saul came out to meet David, and said, “How glorious was the king of Israel today, uncovering himself today in the eyes of the maids of his servants, as one of the base fellows shamelessly uncovers himself!”
21 So David said to Michal, “It was before the LORD, who chose me instead of your father and all his house, to appoint me ruler over the people of the LORD, over Israel. Therefore I will play music before the LORD. 22 And I will be even more undignified than this, and will be humble in my own sight. But as for the maidservants of whom you have spoken, by them I will be held in honor.”
23 Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no children to the day of her death.
(.cont on next post)
So i'll prolly never be on this board again but i came across it and had to put in my 2 cents. I love to worship God iwth dancing. And not with organized praise team dancing how super lame is that. But i love just pouring out my heart to my God and to tell him that i love him so much that i will look like a fool in the worlds eyes to praise him. And well i may not neccessarily agree with using the actual term crunk for christ or getting drunk in the spirit, the ideas that people are using them for are legit. If people want to praise God iwth dance, let them. As long as the dance itself isn't provacative, and they are doing it to praise God, God is pleased. If poeple wanna praise God with hymns, God is pleased, if people wanna praise God with heavy metal screamo (i've done this too) let em. God is universal and created us all with so much diversity. If the creation is this diverse how much more diverse must the creator be and we can't all worship God the same way becasue we were all created differently. God cares about the heart (which i think you get cuz it was said somewhere above) and it is not for us to judge how people worship God that is only for God. If people are worhsipping God in a way that is passionate and from the heart, honoring to God and is not causing the people around them to fall into sin, then yes music that sounds like its from a club can totally be used. Also don't be to quick to judge Lacrae, he's breaking ground no one in the church has dared to before. Paul said we must contextualize the gospel.
For though I am free from all men, I have made myself a slave to all, so that I may win more. To the Jews I became as a Jew, so that I might win Jews; to those who are under the Law, as under the Law though not being myself under the Law, so that I might win those who are under the Law; to those who are without law, as without law, though not being without the law of God but under the law of Christ, so that I might win those who are without law. To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak; I have become all things to all men, so that I may by all means save some.
1 Corinthians 9:19-22
Lacrea is becoming like the "crunk" to reach the "crunk" or however you wanna word it.
Anyway that's all i got God bless!
Hello Lotrcolts,
Maybe you should do more than just skim the article, for a lot of what you say has already been addressed.
You seem to think - like many - that praising God is about what you like. It is not. It is about what GOD likes.
Our sacrifices - even the sacrifice of praise - must be pleasing and acceptable in His sight.
It is interesting that you use a Scripture which speaks against being like the world to promote being like the world...for that is what Crunk is. It is of the world, born of the world, created by the world, and manifested from the world.
Again, you need to read the article if you want to understand what is said. The world was mocking the church not because the church was standing for the name of Jesus. But because the church was being worldly and hypocritical while professing to stand for Jesus.
Because when we look like a fool in the eyes of men for God, God is pleased. Where do you get these things??? The Scriptures say that there is another Jesus, another spirit, and another Gospel that draws men away from God through false doctrine even while they profess to serve Him. Please study the Scriptures to know what God's word says for yourself. Don't just follow men's interpretations, for the things you say are incorrect here.
"Deliver me from all my transgressions: make me not the reproach of the foolish." Psalms 39:8
"Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe." I Corinthians 1:20-21
It is never presented as a good thing to be a fool outside of the preaching of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. It is the Gospel message which is considered foolish by the world so that it will not appeal to those who think themselves to be wise.
If you think that God is pleased by the world making fun of Jesus Christ because those who represent Him are seen as hypocrites, then you are misled.
Again, we are not speaking against dance ministry. However, we are speaking against the mindset that people can just do what they want before God and He somehow finds that acceptable. Such is false.
If people are worhsipping God in a way that is passionate and from the heart, honoring to God and is not causing the people around them to fall into sin, then yes music that sounds like its from a club can totally be used....Lacrea is becoming like the "crunk" to reach the "crunk" or however you wanna word it.
And this type of statement is exactly why we wrote this article. It displays a lack of understanding about the spiritual influences behind the things in which you partake.
You seem very sincere, and I would encourage you to really seek the Lord's views on this point and not simply try to justify what you feel is okay in His eyes. God doesn't just accept anything we call worship because only those things birthed from His Holy Spirit are recognized by Him. He will not accept the spirits of pharmekeia.
May God bless your walk with Him as you follow.
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